and Omega Ministries, a presuppositional apologetics organization based in A couple of other points just briefly. Knowledge infallible is purely dependant upon God, but in the scheme of Author to reader as devised in his example, there is also a component of human reception and explanation that needs to be addressed. I was right. Or are you going to evade the question once again by mindlessly following the ravings of an Internet Apologist! 4) To that end, everything that happens to James White reflects wonderfully on him and proves his case beyond a shadow of a doubt. Thus, perhaps you see now at least a potential source of frustration for Catholics. If you cant, then I humbly suggest you have way too much invested in the man. White supporters have come to this board for serious discussion only to be dismissed with hostility or claims that its off topic.. Do you want a page count, or perhaps a list of sanctioned books? Im quite disappointed I read the whole thing and the Rejoice! gnostic-troll didnt show up. Jesus answer separated the two concepts, much to the benefit of lost humanity. Amen. I fully deny that telling someone that it is wrong to call a man a liar on flimsy grounds is the same as a violent mob. 3. The material is evil and corrupting and the spiritual is pure and corruptible. This is taking the idea of overturning the temple tables a bit too far. Apologetics is the giving of a logical defense, yet Ive seen little of that. Who are you replying to? And then were gonna to Francis Beckwith! No, that belongs to the one who thinks Germans are a race. Theres way more to Sola Scriptura then that, but what was cited was enough. Given that Jesus Himself warned that you should count the cost before becoming a Christian, you have to explain why something being dark and threatening is an argument against it. Maccabees (II) As an audience, they are not required to recognize it as humor, merely a failed attempt. No need for me to chill Im chillin just fine, Amanda. But all your laborious pixel-squirting has failed to obscure the fact White made a hideously stupid comparison. God, says St. Paul, hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation (2 Cor. Theo. As Zack was pastoring in the summer 2012, he was awakened to the abortion holocaust and has never been the same since. And if he truly looks down on folks who would defend an Internet Apologist, what of the fact that he is defending James White, who is also an Internet Apologist by the same virtue? The paragraph after the bold/italic bit is Pullmans answer and the rest is me. You have no basis for assuming that someone here or at Catholic Answers is responsible for registering that domain and pointing it at catholic.com, but its implied by your comment. You should not give yourself a reputation for purblind deceptiveness trying to save him. Fallacious though that may sound. Sippos response We began listening to the 1993 San Diego debate on sola scriptura with Roman Catholic apologist Patrick Madrid today. Keep in mind that the Catholic Church is not a person, its the church founded by Christ. They have quality products with a gospel-centered message. I dont want there to be confusion. HAHAAHwhat is the world coming to. O Threadhijacker lol, Eileen. The fact youre spitting a few dozen indignant syllables indicates that the dart hit home. Why did the miscommunication occur? And take his blog as it isself-centered, gospel-blurring invective. Phoenix apologist, James White, became enraged, as the church was that of his daughter's and the man receiving the tattoo in the video was his son-in-law. What other language is it in, as I only know how to read plain English and write plain English, therefore I dont understand what you mean here. Roman Catholic fanbois We should err on the side of mercy and leave the justice to Him. Churchmouse??? Paul, Would there be reason for outrage if, instead of Catholicky things photoshopped onto the pictures, a pro-abort pasted pro-life sayings? Thank you so much for your prayer. There are reasonable expectations required to have a debate. I would like to invite Evangelicals, including those who have been close to White, to both publicly and privately distance themselves from the actions of Mr. White in posting these pictures as an act fundamentally incompatible with Christian charity. In fact I would argue that by the act of creating, God demonstrated that practice. Thank you so much for your answer! You change your mind about sin (John 3:20), admitting that you're a guilty Offensiveness per se doesnt preclude response. Do You Really Believe and Practice Sola Scriptura? James White does not. Did I/Do I think it reasonable to do so? Especially the last two sections. Registrant Organization:to attn. Esau, as a limited human, do you have the capacity to consider ALL of the evidence? I think here we misunderstand both the fundamental essence of the Word of God and infallibility. Islamists are the Nazis of the post-9/11 world, and thus anyone who depicts his debate opponents as Islamists automatically loses whatever debate was underway due to forfeiture. That cost a good deal more than this little stunt. So no one should respond to Hittchens or Dawkins because they are sometimes offensive? http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2007/08/james-white-has.html#c79351988. However, I think it is important to note that White was making an analogy. Then we are no longer talking about the cannon. He is building a castle in the air, connected to nothing. Please post prayers for him there, keeping in mind that the thread is for prayers only. At Alpha Tattoos and Piercings we will be providing you the highest quality, custom Tattoos and Piercing in a relaxing, clean environment. We have improved your image to the point you really think that you would handle things differently than your medieval forebears. 2) Because the Word of God contained in the Old and New Testament given by God as the sole rule teaches that this is true. What about Lutheranism? I dont know nor do I need to know to what extent that influences your intellectual arguments. Inocencio I still think its your fault going all the way back to your well endowed post! This is indeed childish behavior. About the website, do you even remember your having levelled the accusation against Jimmy Akin and his crew, as you put it: Might want to go back to the start of it to follow the argument, rather than going off on tangents. I would hope that anyone involved in a debate, would do so with the intent of winning the debate. There is NO reason for a White disciple to point anyone to Catholic Answers, let alone build up some elaborate hoax to discredit the Catholics here. I will try to be more circumspect in identifying my addressee. You are wrong. Before travel restrictions James debated in such locations as London, Sydney, as well as in mosques in Toronto and South Africa. Think about it. Gary, Whites assertions HAVE been interacted with. Dont use this as a cheap debate tactic to aviod the real issues. 500 posts, Hmmm. No I dont and I never did so Id appreciate it if youll write a recantation to that accusation. With all due respect, I do not think you got the gist of what I was saying. I hope somebody picks his marbles off the floor before he slips on them. No one else can know infallibly know this canon outside of the authors attempt to comunicate it to othersEven those closest to the author cannot know with utter certainty whether the author has used anyone else in the writing process or borrowed from another sourceTherefore, the originator of a book has an infallible knowledge of the works, while anyone else has a mediated knowledge, dependent upon the honest and the integrity of the author and the authors desire to make the canon known to others. . It is the burden of one affirming a positive to prove their case first. well let me just say, your doing fine in that department already. Its hilarious that you feel that facts from the debate is irrelevant when, actually, it is the very heart of the matter! The first sentence relates to your secret, private revelation as to what you think I was saying. of Mapname.com customer 3 http://www.jamesrwhite.org now points at Whites site. FAT CHANCE!!!! White, J. R. Scripture Alone, Bethany House Publishers, Bloomington, MN, p.107. Neener, neener is taunting. I think hes quite thoroughly a gentleman. Repeat what argument? God help him; his friends clearly arent going to do so. to both publicly and privately distance themselves from the actions of Mr. White in posting these pictures as an act fundamentally incompatible with Christian charity. (Jimmy Akin) Its as simple as thatand the Jesuitical casuistry used to avoid that fact is almost inspiring. There phone # is (951) 242-4988. Read Esaus response verses, without the filter of thinking that the Catholic Church and its members are seeking glory. Thus, I follow the Bishop of Rome (the successor to St Peter on earth), because the Catholic Church is, I believe, truly Christs Church. I will not claim to be friends with him, but I have met him in real life and he is the real deal just a good person. Praise God for the gift of James White. I come before You, in humble adoration and awe of Your power, might and majesty. All in good humour, of course, right??? Nor is there any hint of a purely spiritual church. Posted by: My Cats Name is Lily | Aug 15, 2007 10:00:39 AM. CareBear, Humility, gentleness, courtesy, charity, respect, equanimity, charity rejecting anything that smacks of superiority, ego, disdain, triumphalism, abusiveness, dismissiveness ah, theres an argument thats very, very hard to refute. That is, why would Catholic anybody (e.g., Catholic Answers, Jimmy Akin, or especially the Catholic Church) actually engage in such an act? Which is why I rebuked it. Oh, and Daisy, while I appreciate the Biblical quotes, you really need to do two things: Even between St. Clement of Alexandria, Eusebius, for example! Mary, Registrant Phone Ext. I had hoped not, because Whites action is indefensible. If so, then why did they fail to communicate that point. I see now that blindly following James White is acceptable for you. And, it is becoming obvious, you were just trying to make a fight. Maybe, if you want to get to the bottom of things, considering you indulge conspiracy theories, its a start. Like a crazed archer scattering firebrands and deadly arrows I accused Esau of knowingly committing fallacy, and dilineated exactly how he did it. One of the rules of LAbri is honest answers for honest questions. I dont see a lot of that going on. I have done the same with James White and from my observations he shows the traits of someone with severe control issues. Most deep thinking Protestants come to this issue eventually and their continued Protest depends entirely upon Sola Scriptura. As you have, I can see. Do you know that the phrase drama queen is in the Merriam-Webster dictionary as a person given to often excessively emotional performances or reactions. I know your heart is in the right place, but why to you feed the trolls? Have you told the church yet Esau? But there are some acts against others that go to disrespecting their equality as a fellow human bearing the clear mark of their Creator in the workings of their mind and soul. What does Constantine have to do with Henry VIIs control of the Church of England? And why am I not surprised?? I fully deny that we would wish to chop off his head. As one I would really like to know the answer. Bill, right on the button. Much of the church depends on donations but that doesnt mean its exempt from hanky panky. If you believe I am not a Christian, then show me charity, please, even in my foolishness. More ad hominem. If James White thinks this is humorous, he has indeed lost his mind, along with his common sense, and his simple ordinary decency. If youre referring to the photos, as someone mentioned above, it was White who got off topic, initiating those photos. As it stands, canon as a product of tradition has been destroyed. Akin was simply wrong in his claim, that these images were depicting those [urging White] to be more charitable . 2. Either Catholics would react, thus proving his point, or they wouldnt, thus implying that its a reasonable comparison (after all, the Catholics didnt object.) Personally, I cant think of anything scarier than a J.A dolly. It also makes an excellent chest tattoo, especially if you choose to also get the Alpha symbol on the other side of your chest. I suppose such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though. Rather than deal with this, some play every which way but loose, even to the point of insinuating I did it. Thats what I was attempting to point out earlier: Registrant Street2: In other words, I have a list of books I say was divinely inspired. Had we more folks like you, then perhaps we could live together as brethren in the Faith rather than the viscious venom you find in the age-old prejudice: Prots v. Romanists. SINstitute and Bob Jones PANTSiversity) who say they prefer and mainly use There can be no middle ground on this because it is the authority of the Church that is at issue. Minimalist tattoo ideas are well-appreciated by those who do not have the experience of getting inked before. I am certain I have confused you with my hopelessly mixed metaphors but that really is the best I could do at this hour. We deserve it as a badge of honor or a crown of glory and we should wear it with dignity and pride. BTW, did anyone see the White/Pacwa debate? Whether you feel they are right or wrong, annoying or not, or even reasonable or not, the actions of people engaged in this discussion with White are simply incommensurate with the kind of actions undertaken by radical Muslims. The Sovereign Grace of God: A Biblical Study of the Doctrines of Calvinism. And enter it into the form so that it would do what it does. $25. The Revelation of Peter Godwins Law is limited to comparisons with Nazis and Hitler. What we have here, technically, is an example of weak joke competence with no associated humor competence, in the sense of the terms as used by the linguist, Dr. Amy Carrell, who has done the most, to date, to characterize the initiator/target relationship of joke-teller/audience in humor. Registrant Postal Code:92517 Sandy, Short answer, because Christ Himself gave the Church authority. I refuse to read anything to substantiate a belief in Scripture Alone, especially since Rome says there wasnt a definitive list of authentic scriptures. Foxfier, Admin Postal Code:92517 CareBear: When you mentioned that you have family that were involved in authoritarian religious groups and the resulting ugliness, your view of Catholicism made more sense. if he repents doesnt seem to require us to forgive those who do not repent. your inability and/or unwillingness to recognize that your perceptions may be filterd by a bias, from Columbia Evangelical Seminary (formerly Faraston Seminary). The fact that I come here and do not side with the Jimmy Akin followers does not make me a Disciple of White as you presumptiously put it. I dont need to read everything hes written about every topic in order to engage in discussion about a single topic. Caesaropapism was a much more complex phenomenon with give and take between Church and State than is commonly understood. But HOW does he do this? Thats why I started quoting blog entries from certain people is their entirety in my responses (for which, ironically, I was then chastised for going on at such length). Repentance is essential in Now what? Ive seen several Akin supporters in these comments admit wrongdoing, lack of charity, etc., without backing down on their position. [2] [3] He is the author of several books. That is why I respect him. I apologize, especially to Dr. White and to CareBear, for the heavy-handedness of my post above. The url led to Catholic Answers. w00t! CareBear, ChurchMouse, A coloured floral tattoo like this one may just be what you need to add vibrance to your skin. Or are you so wrapped up with your infatuation for James White that you didnt even pay attention to certain particulars which have clearly gone above your head! http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2004/10/forgiveness_rev.html This thread was about his humor Therefore, there will be that many fewer OSAS Protestants and the likelihood that they will perish in Hell for not accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior (as per the normative forms of the OSAS). Uhhh Esau, Apologetics cannot do everything, you know. The Reformers werent reforming against Trent. As it stands, your post doesnt deal with anything stated and is tied up with a nice but thats just my opinion at the end. Id like to note something amusing: shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought 5 days and counting and no one has interacted with Dr. Whites points. How do you know that Hebrews is actually Scripture? The Earlier Epistle to the Ephesians translations from Hell. It just means that he took a short cut in order to receive the title of Dr. without the usual formation that goes with the typical doctoral program. Before that time I was not really acquainted with any of the apologetics blogs on either side. Foxfier, thanks for your thoughtful response. I ask this only because I believe you are a Christian, a loved and precious child of Christ, washed clean in the Blood of the Lamb. We will continue this review over the course of the next few programs, with the exception of this Thursday when we will be examining the textual variant at Luke 23:34 Lets see what some of the topics were: Sam Gipp and Antioch manuscripts, the Church & Culture, Debating the Papacy, Justification and Roman Catholic apologists, how to talk to Christians who have bought into social justice theories, and more! Important point. CB, In preparation for teaching RCIA, I used to think that I needed to wear my Apologists hat when I taught but I started to run into annoying problem: people in RCIA *want* to be Catholic. There comes a time when the best thing is to simply not engage with the other person and only respond to correct any inaccuracies. Okay, CareBear, tell me then, which books do you consider inspired and tell me exactly why???? If you have questions about Catholicism, just ask them. How can you think youre right when you dont know what right is? If you understand that salvation Perhaps the example of the schoolyard bully whos parents can never admit their little Johny could ever do anything wrong would have been less offensive but the point would be the same. Irrelevant: Jimmy doesnt have time to monitor his comments boxes either, and he doesnt have CA staffers doing it (this is his blog, not the CA blog). Posted by: Foxfier | Aug 14, 2007 1:10:05 PM Foxflier, I did read Jimmys response to Dr. Whites comments. James has asked me to compile the complete response to David Gushees Reformation Project speech. MY HEAD HURTS. Im sure in the interest of a professed fairness, your having overlooked the following comments from the Pro-White folks was merely an oversight, no? The Question is, can they do anything about it? ThoughI must wonder did Paul post a picture of the Pharisees as a brood of vipers on his blog . Did the Earliest Followers of Jesus Believe in His Deity? MY HEAD HURTS. I believe in a rational God. Mr. White, April 2004. Ive yet to hear James White claim that he DIDNT post those pictures. In other words, it assumes either the Author first wrote a portion and then attained infallible knowledge of the canon, or attained both at the same time. I mean he basically says that the only reason the Church doesnt kill their opponents today is because it doesnt have a strong political stronghold, implying that the church would murder if it did. Id have to give the victory to Dr. White. . Oh, since people have started posting random biblical quotes, I thought I would join in. First tell us, what race are the Germans? James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. Finally, these photos seem to me to be on the level of what you see on supermarket tabloid covers funny despite their offensiveness, but in a way that does not reflect particularly well on their creators and sponsors. Please provide evidence. There is one last thing I would like to note. It was SDG who said its gnostic. At this point, I humbly submit that with reason and logic rendered irrelevant and useless to probe the mystery of God, we would have no applicable tools to interpret scripture either personally or otherwise. Ill ammend my positions and habits post haste. And like a college student, you assume that we should all just roll over because you use big words like universal, particular, and logical fallacy. For I had heard how Anthony had been admonished by a reading from the Gospel at which he chanced to be present, as if the words read were addressed to him: Go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven, and come, follow me. and that by such portent he was immediately converted to you. Usually Ill employ sarcasm + substance in order to make a point. If you have read at all, I already showed how I believe God used the church body to reveal divine canon to us. Esau, Indeed, will He not exercise just as much divine power in establishing and fufilling His purpose for the Scriptures (their functioning as a guide to the church) as He has in inspring them? God Bless. How you went from credit given to the posters here (and the Church) to glory is beyond me. Through the church, couldnt tell you the location and Id be interested to see your answer, and to the church yet again. And way more amusing than the actual photoshop. That would be nice. Shabir Ally at University of Pretoria, South Africa 10/8/2013, Shortened Road Trip DL, Response to Andrew Tate Conversion, Sam Gipp Versus the KJV Translators, Mormonism Review Including the Book of Abraham, Confucianism, Islam, and Christianity One Point of Contrast, Views on Homosexuality, Interaction with Lindsay on Gnosticism, Brandan Robertsons Continued Apostasy, Yuvul Noah Hararis Mengelian Worldview, First Program on Odysee: Omicron Variants, Scotus Case, TROnlyism Again, Responding to Tim Stratton, Road Trip: Mary Dogma & Christ A Sole Mediator, First Baptist Church, Opelousas, Louisiana, 2/11/23, Road Trip: The History & Danger of the Roman Catholic Doctrine, First Baptist Church, Opelousas, Louisiana, 2/10/23, Travel Project Announcement, What is Marriage? Debate Review, Road Trip: Debate What is Marriage? What you claim to be tired of is your own gnosis, your own personal determination of what I said. Re: Posted by: LJ | Aug 11, 2007 12:29:25 AM He is a professor with Grace Bible Theological Seminary, and a pastor at Apologia Church. Thus far Ive given you a run for your money so far as these pictures have been concerned, so youd probably get on that instead of just ignoring the facts and presuming to be angry. Ask yourself a question: have you seriously engaged the study of Scripture, so that you have basic, foundational hermeneutical principles clearly in your thinking? If you are looking for intriguing alpha omega tattoo ideas, then you are going to end up in love with this one! Plan on explaining to me how, if Bob claims to have a divinely-inspired Canon of Scripture, and Fred claims to have a slightly different divinely-inspired Canon, one is to determine which (if either) Canon is truly divinely-inspired and therefore the real Canon? This is all pertinent to the next little blurb, which reads: 18:17). And how shall they hear without a preacher? drastically different views of what it means to repent. And this is where I can only say, that the spectacle of a man who names the name of Christ, wandering about in a pair of aged boxer shorts, is not one which is inclined to impress anyone. honestly, if your going to be consistant, you need to consistently apply that category error to Edward too, lest your obsession for White be found out. Something to keep his mind occupied from the horror. Jeremiah gee, the Angelwing Consperacy mustve hacked into Mr. Whites site and posted the pictures. There it says punishment is sufficient, now forgive. Contact. 2. Also, those of us in Protestantism do just say God did it as you so immaturely put it. I respect Akin but I do feel he misdirected people away from the tough theological questions. The hints of purple and yellow also add a dash of vibrance to the design. did I? James is obviously in the end stage of the affliction. For instance, in this design, the red-coloured alpha symbol is adding a certain vibrance to the overall motif. Linework tattoos are quite popular among both men and women and often receive a great review. Nevertheless, James White is bad news for promoting counterfeit Bible versions I think its strange that he has no context of the history of the Crusades and Inquisition as a response to Islam which he says Jimmy is not doing in his work at Catholic Answers. This calls into question the posters sanity. Now, I have obviously attempted to insert a bit of levity, and a bit of humorous sarcasm here, for the simple reason that Im to the point where you either have to laugh or cry. By the way, How exactly are Islamists the National Socialist Workers of the post 9/11 world? Unfortunately, his works have some decent conentbut he lacks the general Christian character. You have me confused with someone else. 26:28). The first will be last, the last first. ___________________________________________ This kind of excuse will not do. In the interview Beckwith never indicated that he had ever read trent, he assumed that everyone knew he did but what he said would easily give you the impression that he hadnt read it. But for those who don't know him, he is a world-renowned apologist who serves as the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona.